Steven’s recent concern over the correct translation of “Brigade” in Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya turns out to be due to his worrying over his speculation on the “Kyon is God” theory being affected negatively by botched translations from the fansubbers. I think he’s being overly concerned; both a.f.k. and Lunar seem to be pretty good groups with good translations (not like Shining Forest or Doremai, which come out rather….Engrishy). But still it’s a good thing to check one’s assumptions and basic data.
As for Kyon’s status, been there, done that speculation, back when Houblog had anime. And as I have said elsewhere, it’s the events of Ep.11 (Day of Sagittarius) that first made me think seriously that he might really be the one doing it all. He may be the most ordinary of them all, but he’s the only one who can steer Haruhi when the chips are down.
But.
In the second half of the Island mystery, we see *something* happen in the cave. Haruhi has a sudden realization, and we see the world distort briefly. It is never explained. It doesn’t make the “Kyon is God” theory impossible, but it does lean against it if Haruhi suddenly changed things so that the whole episode was a prank/plot/distraction by the espers. On the flip side against that, we saw Yuki looking at the unmarked door and then at Kyon before this happened.
Is it a retcon if we see it preemptively? (Just kidding.)
I’m not going to discuss the books other than to say there is evidence both ways, but I think the anime leans against Kyon being God, and the books, based on one story in particular (Endless Summer), lean in favor. The thing is, the author had a great deal of input into the series, so I think he might have planted the cave scene to be ambiguous and/or confuse the issue.
Or we could be guilty of over-analyzing everything: What w said in the comments of Wabi Sabi’s excellent article …
‘I get the feeling most Japanese fans watch anime to be entertained first – case in point, one Japanese guy at the animesuki forums once commented in a thread where everyone was discussing stuff seriously: “Why are you guys taking it so seriously? It’s just entertainment, I dont’ see why foreign fans can’t just relax and enjoy it as it is”. Or something along those lines.’
It could be that neither the author nor KyoAni have any thoughts whatsoever on that, and nothing means anything in particular. Who knows? But we can have fun arguing it for a couple of years, at least.
As an aside, I found w’s next paragraph intriguing:
‘Interestingly enough according to the same 2ch guy I mentioned earlier, anime might be expereincing a good period now precisely because of overseas attention to it. Previously most people didn’t care so much about anime or it was generally kept as a quiet topic – but when foreign attention is given to anime suddenly more people start noticing it. If the foreigners like it it must be good! kind of thing. No other reason why GITS, which was financially a bomb in Japan, got no less than 2 26-ep TV series and an extra movie to boot, all with a very high budget. It’s been mentioned elsewhere that some shows would not turn a profit if it wasn’t for foreign licensing.’
I wonder if this is why we’re seeing so much more anime produced in Japan in the last year or two? It’s gone from 50 series a season to over 100 in only a couple of years, hasn’t it? Like Hollywood, they may now be trying to just break even in the domestic market and profit from the overseas revenue. Which leads me to the question: Which market was the recent Pizza Hut sponsorship deal with Code Geass really aimed at?
Well, if it’s true, this is great for us, especially if they start paying more attention to that Western Logic Wabi Sabi was talking about…
UPDATE 4/20: Robert came through in style with TSR DVD 4, several days ahead of when it was supposed to be available. The reason that’s important to this post: The trailer for Melancholy is on it — and they do say “SOS Brigade.” Accurate or not, it’s now canon.
And I hate Haruhi’s English voice. She sounds like a spoiled girl, not a megalomaniac.
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Mark, you don’t have comments and I didn’t see an email link, but if you stop back by here…
The sponsorship, or rather, promo tie-in was at this url (no longer valid, however). Jason commented on it here.
I will admit to having to look up “retcon” on Wikipedia since I wasn’t totally clear on the term’s meaning…
The “Kyon is God” theory does not sit well with me. It’s just too clever–oh, he believes that Haruhi thinks she’s an ordinary girl but is actually God, but the truth is that he’s the one who thinks he’s ordinary but is actually God! It’s like the ending of the second Matrix movie–oh, Neo thought he had escaped the Matrix for the real world, but in truth his “real world” was just another layer of the Matrix! (I bet the Wachowski brothers were high-fiving each other when they came up with that one).
Not to mention that Kyon being a totally ordinary guy is a huge part of what makes the plot work for me. If he’s not, you lose any grounding the series has in reality and it becomes a teens-with-superpowers show.
Finally, if Kyon is unconsciously controlling everything that happens around him, how do you explain Itsuki’s presence? Unless you mean to suggest that God is bi-curious…
Foreign licensing is a BIG hunk of the revenue for anime projects these days. Lots of “wouldn’t have been made without the prospect of licensing.” This can be bad – if a show needs a certain licensing fee to make the numbers work on the Japanese end, the Japanese company is going to be highly unlikely to license it for less, even if there’s NO WAY that the show could earn the money back in the US.
US fans tend to analyze sci-fi stuff pretty hard anyway – the US SF tradition is a lot “harder” than the Japanese one, by and large. We expect our own SF stuff to be pretty internally consistent, and if it’s not and the author hasn’t come up with an explanation for it beforehand, that’s a strike against the work. The same attitude doesn’t always work when you’re looking at anime. If you’re playing Gadget Trial and asking “so why are the artillery units all little girls,” the proper answer is “because it is moe”, and trying to think of some kind of technical justification is probably wasted time. ;p
But you can’t overlook the translation process either. We have to sit down and think about shades of meaning that a Japanese writer may not have wondered about… he’d write it, his audience would get it, he’s not worried that you could read it a totally different way. I’ve been on projects where we’ve gone down a couple of long, winding logical trails to figure out what the heck was going on in a show, only to contact the writers in Japan and get back a “we don’t know, er, actually we didn’t think about any of that” response. (Kind of takes the wind out of your sails, no? On the other hand, if your translation is running into the limits of the original work, you’re probably doing things right…)
As far as Kyon being the source of Haruhi-ism, I’m not convinced… but the books don’t kill the idea off either, though there’s plenty of things which point towards both sides. (It’s hard to distinguish between “this is happening because Kyon needs to self-actualize” and “this is happening because Haruhi demands a quality boyfriend.”) OTOH, when Steven starts swiping at know-it-all gits who read the novels, I think he’s talking about me… ;p
Hi AvatarADV! Thanks for dropping by. Hope you enjoy the site. 🙂
I may have been one of the early Kyon = God proponents, but I don’t seriously believe the author is trending that way. It’s possible, and Endless Summer really makes me wonder, but I think it’s not the case. Like Steven said, it’s a bad idea because it ruins the formula.
This is an area where animé constantly fools me. There are things that I toss off like that, and then when I find that the author DID think about them, I’m completely surprised. One example was the mysterious ruins on the Quantum Core in Divergence Eve. I just blew them off as “flavor” or “imagination of the pilot.” Another is the issue of Shana’s emotions vs. power that Steven talks about in the letter to me that he published today. The staples of the story are so clichéd (enemies that become friends, emotionless tsundere falling for a guy) that contrasting them to power levels didn’t even occur to me. Marjorie’s problems, I felt, were more with the motivation to fight, not the power. But this is a western viewpoint and I might have been in error. (And I might not, for reasons that are heavy-duty spoilers.)
More later, break’s over now…
Regrettably, both Shana and DE are on my “get around to it” pile. DE’s probably the only show I worked on but did not actually watch…
There’s an aspect of the “Kyon as god” question I hadn’t previously considered. Is the situation the way it is because Haruhi is “god” and wants things that way, or because Kyon is “god” and projects it on Haruhi? In fact, it may be that neither are true.
Essentially, it’s entirely possible that Mikuru, Yuki, and Itsuki are involved in manipulating Kyon into a Haruhi-buffer. Certainly, he ends up in situations that aren’t due to Haruhi’s power running amok, but in fact are things carefully set up by one or the other members, basically giving Kyon an active role when he really doesn’t have any business having one. What for? Because an active, slightly harassed Kyon is a much more effective Haruhi-buffer than a bored one (who might provoke Haruhi on his own) or a disinterested one (which might provoke Haruhi into making his life interesting). But those aren’t cases of Kyon-power making Kyon’s life interesting by changing reality; it’s something that the others are consciously doing to him.
At the same time, Kyon’s a great deniable weapon. Ostensibly, they’re all more or less shooting for a status quo situation, sure. But Mikuru’s older self gets Kyon to do quite a bit of “present manipulation”, if you will, while for Yuki, Kyon is in many ways her hold-out against her own bosses. Itsuki has a good handle on Kyon’s behavior as well. Should any of them get into a bind vis-a-vis their rivals, it wouldn’t take too much for any of them to get Kyon to set Haruhi off like a Claymore mine…
Now that is an interesting thought. In effect, the other three aren’t just diverting Haruhi, they’re taking out insurance by keeping Kyon entertained as well. Personally, I didn’t understand why the DIE’s didn’t do something drastic to Kyon after he told them off on Yuki’s behalf–especially since it might have strengthened the hand of the interventionist faction. “Well, if we don’t act, he may.”
On the other hand, if they see him as the most effective tool to suppress Haruhi, they’d be leery of risking it.
Of all the manipulators, the one who is probably scariest is Itsuki. His organization is no more mysterious than the others, but he’s just… oily. I wouldn’t buy a used car from that guy, and I’d count my fingers after shaking hands.
What i posted on another blog before i found this very interesting one.
“I believe this anime is one of the best animated animes i ever saw.
The story is top notch too. But after ready a good quantity of comments here and there i wonder why everybody seems to accept the fact that Haruhi is the god everybody thinks she is. Or rather why does everybody thinks Kyon is a regular human being ?
Is it because of what Itsuki said at some point is the series ? Or maybe because he is the narrator ?
But what proof do we have that he is “normal†?
I have the feeling that everything revolves around Kyon, not Haruhi. All the characters, all the stories, all the mysteries. He is always half surprised, half blasé about what happens around him. Wouldn’t he be the bored one rather than Haruhi ?
Think about it !
The first monologue he delivers in episode 2 (chronologically the first one), about how he doesnt believe in santa claus but in aliens, espers and time travelers … way before he meets with Haruhi.
Why do we only see these kind of special persons around later on if it isnt for him to somehow “summon†them ? How come it isnt some other kind of special stuff ? It is way too convenient in the story to be just a mere coincidence.
Furthermore, the whole plot revolves around him. All the characters open to him, and only to him. All of them. Haruhi who never talked to anyone before, ditto Yuki, Itsuki etc. The cast is made for him to enjoy. The cosplay i find especially revealing, why on earth would a GIRL (Haruhi) take such interest in bunny costumes and maid outfits ? The answer is she is there (her personality, the club activities) to put them on Mikuru and herself for Kyon’s guilty pleasure. There are several clues during the series as to how much he enjoys this.
I dont think the world revolves around Haruhi. I believe Kyon was bored and created everything.
The whole theory Itsuki discloses to Kyon while in the cab, going to the “closed space†where he will see his first giant is also (i believe) a clue to that end. If Haruhi was the one creating the universe around her, i dont believe it could be like this, it just doesnt fit with her personality. She would be the one talking with the aliens, living the adventures, witnessing all the stuff Kyon does. Yet she doesnt, why is that? My explanation is that the cave metaphor (or whatever else it is named) applies instead to Kyon. Think about it, rewatch the show, it all fits.
Why does he never believe the murder is a real one on the island ? Is it because he has faith in Haruhi like Itsuki tells him at the end ? Or is it because he KNOWS he would not do this himself, were he the real one behind all of this ?
I also happen to find the narrative process highly suspicious. The way he is the main observer of the plot and the characters reminds me of Agatha Christie’s “Ten Little ******†[Please do not use that term on this blog. –Ubu] or “Ten Little Indians†for you Americans. It is (for me) just a clever trick to deceive us.
To summarize, Haruhi being the “god†of this worlds just doesnt fit. Replace her with Kyon everything makes sense regarding his personality.
Now wether she also is something else (a bit like a god like him) i dont know. Maybe, maybe not. I read that there is a whole book with the story going on without her … How is that possible if she is the central character of this world ?
well enough ramblings. I’ll rewatch the show later and see if i can pick anything else.”